- [Announcer] From May until September in 1787, 55 delegates representing 12 of the original 13 states gathered in Philadelphia to write our Constitution.

Only Rhode Island sent no delegate.

Do you know how many delegates came from Pennsylvania?

You're invited to play "The Pennsylvania Game."

Test your knowledge of the Commonwealth's people, places and products.

"The Pennsylvania Game" is brought to you in part by Uni-Marts Incorporated, with stores in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey and Delaware.

Serving you with courtesy and convenience every day of the year.

(upbeat trumpet music) (soft chime) And from Landmark and Landmark is A, a savings and loan?

B, a bank?

C, a leading mortgage lender or D, all of the above?

The correct answer is D, all of the above.

People to people, it's just a better way to bank.

Now here's the host of "The Pennsylvania Game," Lynn Hines.

- Hi, hi, thank you.

(audience applauds) Thank you very much, thank you.

Thank you very much.

In honor of the 200th birthday of our Constitution this year, 1787, we have a special "Pennsylvania Game" about Pennsylvania's role in the Constitution and we're gonna want you to play at home, see if you can match wits with our panelists.

He is a man who has made a second career out of playing "The Pennsylvania Game," Bernie Asbell.

(audience applauds) An attorney, he's a native Pennsylvanian from Media, Pennsylvania.

Let's welcome I.B.

Ben Sinclair.

(audience applauds) And a man who is on the radio and whose cat loves me, more bout that later, Kevin Nelson.

(audience applauds) Now as you heard in the thing, everybody came to Pennsylvania, to Philadelphia.

How many from Pennsylvania?

- [Announcer] 12 Of the original states sent delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.

Only Rhode Island sent none.

Of the 55 delegates, how many represented Pennsylvania?

A, three?

B, five?

C, eight or D, 12?

- Well as you know, we always give you four choices.

So you have a 25% average chance of being right, Bernie, even with a guess, what do you think?

- Well if this were a trick question, I would say three.

- Uh-huh.

- I'll have to say 12, not 'cause we were so well-represented but because the expenses were so low for getting to Philadelphia.

- [Lynn] That's true, put up a D If you want to select 12.

That's true that the expenses weren't much.

You didn't have to travel far.

Ben, what do you say?

- Oh my.

(Lynn laughs) - [Lynn] You stole Kevin Nelson's line.

He was gonna say "Oh my."

- I want to get started on having no correct answers.

I think about five, I can think of two names.

- Okay, you're gonna go for B.

We have a D, we have a B and Kevin Nelson, you know this one, I know you do.

- Well, I can't say "Oh my."

I was thinking 11 for some reason and 12 is close to that but Bernie said 12.

- [Lynn] Yeah.

- And I think 12 is just too darn many.

We would've been showing off, so I'm gonna say eight.

- You're gonna say eight?

So you're sort of averaging in the middle there.

- Yeah.

- Well let's see if an average answer does it or if one of the two extremes does it.

- [Announcer] The answer is C, eight, the most of any state.

(audience applauds) 81-year-old Ben Franklin was the elder statesman of the group.

James Wilson had come from Scotland at age 23 and played a major role in writing the Constitution, as did English-born Robert Morris, probably the richest, most powerful man in America at the time.

Gouverneur Morris had been born in what is the Bronx, New York, was a bachelor with a wooden leg and he wrote the finished copy of the Constitution.

Irish-born Thomas Fitzsimons was one of only two Roman Catholics at the convention.

Connecticut-born Jared Ingersoll had been educated at Yale.

George Clymer was a native-born Philadelphian and a prosperous merchant.

Thomas Mifflin was also a native Philadelphian, a Quaker and a politician.

- Yeah, okay.

So there we had quite a distinguished group from Pennsylvania and quite a distinguished right answer from Mr. Kevin Nelson on that first one, nice going Kev.

- Can we stop the game now?

- No, no, no, no, no.

Ben Franklin of course was the senior elder statesman, 81 years old and he had a way of calming things down when things went awry.

- [Announcer] Midway through the Convention when tempers were growing short, Ben Franklin proposed that a clergyman open each session with prayer, thinking that such a practice would keep them on track.

Arguments against the motion included all but one of the following.

Which argument was not raised?

A, there was no money to pay a clergyman?

B, it was against Quaker custom to pray at political meetings?

C, to start prayer then might symbolize trouble or D, it was a violation of church and state?

- Okay, three of these arguments were used to bring a clergyman in about midway through the proceedings and one argument was not used.

Which one was not used?

There was no money to play a clergyman, it was against Quaker custom and they were in Philadelphia, which was Quaker-dominated at the time, to start a prayer at that point through might symbolize they were having trouble and they didn't want to send that message to the outside world or that it was a violation of church and state?

Which of these three was not used as an argument?

Ben, we're starting with you this time.

- You know, it's a lot easier to answer these when I'm sitting at home in my living room.

(Lynn laughs) I think the most reasonable one is it was a violation of church and state and therefore I'd estimate this was the one that wasn't raised.

- Okay, you think that the most reasonable one was not raised.

Kevin, one right so far.

- Well, let's louse this up.

- Okay.

- One in a row, but I agree with you.

I think it's D because we hear so much of that now and I don't think we heard so much of it then, D, violation of church and state.

- You're putting up A.

If you mean D, you better put up D. (audience laughs) - The best of both worlds.

- Are you gonna pick on me the whole game again?

- [Lynn] Bernie, what do you say?

- The reasoning of these fellas is both wrong.

Their answer is right, I think the violation of the separation of church and state was first mentioned in the Constitution in the Bill of Rights which was passed some years later.

So I too will say D, it was not raised.

- [Lynn] Okay, so you think that they did argue there was no money and all the other arguments?

- Well, everybody argues about money.

- Let's see.

- That one's obvious.

- [Announcer] The answer is D, they never mentioned a violation of church and state.

The other arguments were raised but no vote was taken.

(relaxed flute music) - From reading about it, it seems that the argument that carried the most weight was there was no money to pay a clergyman.

So they sort of said "Oh, well" and went on to other business but there was no argument about violation of church and state.

You're all quite right.

- [Ben] Perhaps if the clergyman had got up in the prayer tower.

- That might have done it, yes and stayed there until- - That's right.

- This is a little harder game than our average game I'd say because it deals with the Constitution.

- Are you explaining?

- I'm asking you, do you think it's harder?

- Oh, they're all so hard.

- Are they?

- Oh, yes.

- You do right well.

(Bernie laughs) I figured though that I.B.

Ben Sinclair, as an attorney, you might know a little bit more about the Constitution and might have an advantage.

- Attorneys know very little about the Constitution, you will find.

(Lynn laughs) They're the worst, absolutely.

- Your practice now is in Media, Pennsylvania.

- [Ben] That's correct.

- And is that in Delaware County?

- Delaware County.

- Okay.

We're delighted to have you back up here in Centre, Pennsylvania.

- Glad to be here.

Always happy to be back in State College and it's interesting being on this side of the TV set.

Every time I come up and I have a place in Clearfield County, I watch your program.

- That's great.

- It's a lot of fun.

- [Lynn] Kevin, I mentioned earlier that your cat loves me.

You want to explain that?

- Penelope will be watching.

So first of all, hello Penelope.

That's my little pussycat and she watches television.

Not a lot of cats do and when "The Pennsylvania Game" is on, this is true, she gets up on the screen, when you're on the screen, she just gets up and can't get enough of you.

- What does that mean?

(audience laughs) - It either means that she thinks you're a marvelous host or she thinks you look like a scratching post, I'm not sure.

- I'm not sure which way I want to go on that.

- Okay.

- Let's press ahead with our next question 'cause it also is about the Constitution.

- [Announcer] When the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia finished on September 17th, 1787, the last Article of the Constitution stated that nine states must ratify in order to put the Constitution in effect.

Was that last article number A, seven?

B, nine?

C, 12 or D, 18?

- Kevin Nelson, all you have to figure out is how many Articles there were in our Constitution originally without Amendments and you'll know the answer to this one.

A, B, C or D?

- That's how simple that is?

- That's how simple that is.

- Okay.

- [Lynn] And then pick the right letter of course from your cards.

(Lynn laughs) - Well, nine, nein is "no" in German and I don't want to be, and 12 was mentioned in another question and "Eighteen" was a hit by Alice Cooper.

So that leaves seven.

- I see.

- And A.

- I'm not quite sure I understand the way you did that but okay.

- Not sure I do either.

- Bernie, (laughs) has he confused you?

- I'm gonna take B because nein means "no" in German.

- I see, okay.

(audience laughs) Ben, what do you say?

How many Articles in the original Constitution?

- You should never ask an attorney a complicated question like that.

(Lynn laughs) I think I'll go along with Bernie Asbell.

I believe it's nine also.

- Yeah?

- I hope I don't jinx it.

- Aren't there nine on the Supreme Court also?

- Yeah, nine old men.

- Wouldn't that argue for nine?

B must be right.

- [Announcer] The answer is A, seven.

The first Article of the Constitution defines the powers and duties of Congress.

The second establishes the office of the President.

The third sets up the national courts.

The fourth Article of the Constitution defines the powers of the states.

The fifth sets up rules for amending the Constitution.

The sixth article declares the Constitution the supreme law of the land and the seventh sets up the procedure for ratification.

(relaxed flute music) - So really there are only five that amounted, I mean that were workable.

Six was just how they would go about passing this one and seven is, you know?

So but Kevin, you've taken a commanding lead.

- I'll tell you.

- I'm so proud of you.

- [Kevin] And I'm going to share my secret.

- Uh-huh?

- Dumb luck.

(audience laughs) - [Ben] That cat is sending him messages.

- Ben Franklin we said made a lot of suggestions.

He was running around making suggestions all the time and one of the other ones he suggested was rather interesting too.

- [Announcer] Ben Franklin made a proposal about the chief executive that some said was utopian but Franklin said he got the idea from a Quaker practice.

Was the idea that the President must A, serve without pay?

B, have no formal title?

C, believe in God or D, rest on Sundays?

- Okay, Ben Franklin said he got the idea from a Quaker practice and that it was the chief executive had to do one of these four things, which did he suggest?

And Bernie, I believe we're back starting with you this time.

- I missed something, he got the idea for what?

- [Lynn] The idea of something about the chief executive or the President.

- I see.

- As they later called him.

- I see, okay.

- [Lynn] Which one of these four did Franklin suggest that he do, following the Quaker practice?

- Well, the only one among those incredible conclusions that begins to make sense would be A.

- It is a rather incredible conglomeration of answers, I admit.

Ben, which one do you say that he suggested for the President?

- Well, most Presidents rest seven days a week these days.

(Lynn and audience laughing) I can't resist serve without pay.

I think that's a brilliant suggestion.

That would weed them out very quickly.

- [Lynn] Think that should have been adopted right away, huh?

- Absolutely.

- Kevin?

- Well, they all look good.

They all seem like good ideas.

I don't know why, I'm gonna say rest on Sundays and try to put an end to this streak of mine.

- Okay, we've spelled A-A-D, whatever that spells.

Which one of these did Franklin suggest for our President?

- [Announcer] The answer is A, serve without pay.

Because it was painful for the 81-year-old Franklin to stand, James Wilson read his speech.

He said that Quakers attracted the best leaders because there was no pay.

Besides, he said, George Washington had provided the example by serving as General for eight years without pay.

Franklin added that even if you started with just a small salary, they would always be trying to raise it.

- Did Franklin know what he was talking about or not?

I mean, he had some great ideas.

The score, Kevin's still ahead but it's getting a lot tighter thanks to that last question.

Kevin has three, our other two panelists have two.

Let's hear it for our panel, they're doing all right.

(audience applauds) That's your moment for your close-up, Kevin.

Mystery Pennsylvanian clue number one.

There will be three clues altogether.

See if you can guess this mystery Pennsylvanian and write it on the first line of the card if you know, panel.

He did his first writing under the pen name of Silence Dogood, although he was later to write under a more famous name.

Did his first writing under the pen name Silence Dogood, though later would do more writing under a more famous name.

So while our panel is scribbling, let's press ahead and talk about the Constitution and attorneys, believe it or not.

- [Announcer] Shakespeare once said "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

Americans have shared that distrust of lawyers since colonial days.

How many of the 55 delegates who helped create the Constitution has studied law?

A, none?

B, two?

C, 10 or D, 34?

- I'm not sure where Shakespeare said that but in one of his plays, he said "The first thing, let's kill all the lawyers."

And there is something and has been since colonial times an attitude about lawyers mess things up.

So the question is how many of the 55 delegates were attorneys?

Ben, let's start with you, an attorney.

- Well considering the number of Amendments we've needed and the number of mistakes that have been made, there have to be a great number of attorneys present.

(Lynn laughs) They're likely to make more mistakes than anyone else, present company included.

I'd say 34, D. - Okay, that's 34 out of 55.

Kevin, does that seem too large a number to you?

- Boy, it sure does and I notice in 55, there are two fives.

- That's true.

- I'm gonna say two.

- Okay.

Two out of 55, Bernie?

- I believe in colonial America, the practice of law, the study of law was not very common and the Constitution has been so durable that I'll say none.

- [Lynn] You're going for the really radical answer.

- The really radical answer.

- There were no lawyers and that's why the Constitution is such a great document.

How many were there?

- [Announcer] The answer is D, 34, including Pennsylvania delegates James Wilson, Gouverneur Morris and Jared Ingersoll.

A majority of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were also trained in the law.

(relaxed guitar music) - Incredible.

- Well, that's right.

But they did take it seriously and read it a lot and so the majority of the delegates both to the Convention and to the Declaration of Independence were men who had read the law quite seriously.

You'll like this next question, Kevin and we start with you.

The next one is about a game and I know you love to play games, let's watch.

- [Announcer] Ben Franklin said The new government was not like a game of chess, played by a skillful hand without a fault but that there were so many differing ideas, chance played a role, making it more like a game of Tric-Trac.

What they called Tric-Trac in those days today we call A, marbles?

B, Backgammon?

C, poker or D, bridge?

- "Well, more like a game of Tric-Trac" said old Ben and what did they call Tric-Trac or what do we call it today?

- Well, I actually know this one and you've heard that one before, haven't you?

- Sure.

- But I do.

Tric-Trac is now called Backgammon and I'm not a bad player myself.

- I see.

- B.

- You play a lot of Tric-Trac?

- B for Backgammon.

- Yeah.

- Uh-huh.

Did he convince you, Bernie?

- I had a hunch before Kevin said so and I'm gonna challenge him to Backgammon or Tric-Track after the show today.

- I see, I see.

Well now, spoken with great authority, Ben.

- My finger was on B, just by a process of elimination.

I don't play any of them.

- Okay.

- Except for marbles when I was younger.

- Okay.

- I'll say B.

- [Announcer] The answer is B, Backgammon.

Franklin wrote these words.

"The players of our game are so many, their ideas so different, their prejudices so strong and so various that the wisest must agree to some unreasonable things, that reasonable ones of more consequence may be obtained and thus chance has its share in many of the determinations, so that the play is more like Tric-Trac with a box of dice."

- Isn't that marvelous?

We thank that group that they get together and do colonial things in colonial dress and we thank them for doing that for us.

That was marvelous, marvelous footage.

Y'all got it right though.

I hate it when you all get it right.

This next one may amaze you.

There was a long silence, the longest silence produced by what?

- [Announcer] James Wilson proposed a resolution on a certain topic that produced perhaps the longest silence of any proposal at the Convention.

What did Wilson propose that produced such a shocked response?

A, the abolition of slavery?

B, the election of a single executive?

C, the establishment of Protestantism or D, the redrawing of state lines?

- Okay, now these delegates were there from all over America, the colonies of the United States trying to get this Constitution drawn up and there was a suggestion made by James Wilson of Pennsylvania and there was kind of a (gasp) shocked silence.

What was it that shocked them so, which of those?

Bernie, we're up to you first.

- All of those would produce great surprise but I think the one that would leave them speechless would be the abolition of slavery.

- [Lynn] Okay, Ben?

- Well, the election of a single executive would've ruled out all the married men.

But that would've probably caused all great- - [Lynn] No, no, no, that's not what that means.

- Oh, oh, oh.

- Matrimonial lawyer.

- A single executive rather than a multiple number of executives.

- I see, I see.

I think the redrawing of state lines.

Everything else I think would've brought them to their feet.

- They were fiercely loyal to their own states.

That's true, Kevin?

- Well, I'm a slave to Bernie's logic.

In fact as I recall, George Washington had slaves himself.

So I believe it was the abolition of slavery.

- This answer then may surprise you and I wonder how many of you it surprises.

It did surprise me.

- [Announcer] The answer is B, the election of a single executive.

The delegates remembered their experience with King George III and were fearful of having one person at the head of government.

One delegate said it would be fine so long as General Washington was President but asked what would happen when he was succeeded by General Slushington.

- I think I voted for General Slushington in one election if I recall but they were talking about two or three people, a panel to be head of government and the suggestion to have one person as head of government was a bit shocking to them.

The score, well, let's see.

We've got a tie between Kevin and and Ben Sinclair.

It's four and four and Bernie is just one back with three.

It's a very close game so far.

Let's do the Mystery Pennsylvanian clue number two and see what happens.

He refused to get a patent on any of his well-known inventions, feeling they belonged to everyone.

First clue was he did his first writing under the pen name of Silence Dogood, later to write under a more famous pen name.

Second clue, he refused to get a patent on his inventions.

He felt they belonged to everyone.

If you've got a suggestion for us for "The Pennsylvania Game," our address is The Pennsylvania Game, Wagner Annex, University Park, Pennsylvania, 16802 and we'd be glad to hear from you.

Next question is about, well, James Wilson again, who just was active in this Convention.

- [Announcer] James Wilson and a committee did a first draft of the new Constitution while the other delegates took a 10-day break from July 26th 'til August 6th.

Gouverneur Morris and George Washington did something together during the break.

Did they A, go trout fishing at Valley Forge?

B, attend a musical concert in Bethlehem?

C, go sailing on the Chesapeake Bay or D, survey what was to become Washington D.C.?

- Well, those are inventive answers.

Gouverneur Morris and George Washington did something together while there was this break while they were doing the last draft of the Constitution.

What'd they do, Ben Sinclair?

- Mm.

(Lynn laughs) Well, I know they didn't go to Washington D.C. because George never saw the spot or at least didn't do anything other than visit Georgetown.

I'd say attend a musical concert in Bethlehem.

- [Lynn] 'Cause the Moravians there did have a lot of musical concerts.

- That sounds like a fitting thing to do.

- [Lynn] Kevin, what kind of logic are you applying to this?

- You may like this.

Of course everything, the big important day was July and this was before that happened.

So that would've been trout season.

So they must have gone trout fishing at Valley Forge.

- [Lynn] I see.

- Are there any trout at Valley Forge?

- I don't know if there are or not.

- That's how good they were.

- Bernie?

- You said 10 days?

- Yeah, they had 10 days off.

Gouverneur Morris was doing the last draft.

- Washington D.C. then would be about 100 miles away.

They could get there on a horse.

- [Lynn] They could get there on a horse.

- Washington D.C. did not exist but they might have gone to survey what was to become the nation's Capital.

- Because Washington was a surveyor initially.

- In fact, I'll say they did.

- But Presidents like to fish too.

I don't know, what is it?

- [Announcer] The answer is A, they went trout fishing at Valley Forge.

Washington found the site of his army's bitter winter of 10 years before falling into ruins.

After Valley Forge, they went to Trenton to do more fishing.

(relaxed flute music) - I just can't believe how well Kevin Nelson's doing and trout fishing was what they did.

- I got my eye on Bernie's chair.

- Yeah.

(laughs) We gotta press along with another question.

This one again is about something in Pennsylvania.

- [Announcer] Pennsylvania delegate Thomas Mifflin read the New Constitution publicly for the first time to the Pennsylvania Assembly on September 18th.

Which of these items did the Federal Constitution not change from Pennsylvania's Constitution of 1776?

A, a two-chamber Legislature?

B, election of representatives each two years?

C, election of a President by popular vote or D, a free vote without owning property?

- Okay, which of these did they not change from the rather radical Pennsylvania Convention?

Which one did they not change from Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776, Kevin?

What would you say?

The others they did change.

Three of these, the Pennsylvania didn't have but one of them it did have, which one?

- [Kevin] Well, we still have a two-chamber Legislature.

- Well.

- And since I have no idea, I'll go with A.

- Okay, A. Bernie, you understand what we're asking here?

- Today is Hunch Day.

- Hunch Day.

- And Pennsylvania having been largely a Quaker state at that time, I like that you could vote even if you didn't own anything.

- Okay, Ben, what do you say?

- I think it's the election of representatives each two years.

- Okay, we have a D, a B and an A and it's kind of a tough question but the answer might surprise you a little bit, let's see.

- [Announcer] The answer is D, A free vote without owning property.

Only Pennsylvania, Delaware and New Hampshire had the vote without owning property.

(relaxed guitar music) - Yeah, see, Pennsylvania had a really radical Constitution.

They had a Legislature elected every year and the President was elected by the Legislature.

So they controlled him and it was very much, and it was only one chamber.

So they only changed that last one, you were right and the score is Kevin still ahead by one with five and Ben and Bernie both have four.

Let's hear it for the panel, boy, that's a close game.

(audience applauds) Last clue coming up.

It was appropriate that he signed the Constitution, for he had drafted the Albany Plan of Union in 1754, a forerunner to our Constitution.

The other clues were first writing under the pen name Silence Dogood and then he refused to get a patent on his inventions, feeling they belonged to everybody and the last one is appropriate that he signed the Constitution, for he had drafted the Albany Plan of Union in 1754, a forerunner to our Constitution and Kevin, let's start with you, it's I believe your turn.

Let's see what you've got written down over there.

- I started on two with Ben Franklin.

- Ben Franklin on number two and what do you have, Ben?

Coming up the other way here.

- I was conservative but I can't think of anyone other than Ben Franklin.

- Okay, Ben Franklin on number three and Bernie, what do you say?

- Well if we're right, this doesn't tie me with Kevin but at least I thought of Ben Franklin number one.

- I thought Ben Franklin wrote under the name of Poor Richard.

- "Poor Richard's Almanack."

- Not Silence Dogood.

What's the answer?

- [Announcer] Benjamin Franklin wrote as Silence Dogood for his brother's paper in Boston.

But his later "Poor Richard's Almanack" gained him fame throughout the colonies.

Franklin refused to patent his lightning rod, battery and Franklin stove, giving them to everyone.

He helped frame the Albany Plan of 1754, The Articles of Confederation, the Declaration of Independence, treaties with England and France as well as the Constitution.

Ben Franklin, a very famous Pennsylvanian.

- I wanna tell you something.

The more I read about Ben Franklin, the more impressed I am of what a great man he was.

Every bit as great I think as Washington and Thomas Jefferson, ranked right up there with them and a worldwide reputation that really eclipsed all of them.

- That's interesting, for all we know, he might not have made a great President even though he may have been the greatest American at the time.

- That's true, we gotta go.

Hope you enjoyed "The Pennsylvania Game."

Congratulations Kevin, see you next time.

(audience applauds) (relaxed electronic music) - [Announcer] "The Pennsylvania Game" has been made possible in part by Unimarts Incorporated, with stores in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Delaware.

Serving you with courtesy and convenience every day of the year.

(upbeat trumpet music) (soft chime) And from Landmark and Landmark is A, a savings and loan?

B, a bank?

C, a leading mortgage lender or D, all of the above?

The correct answer is D, all of the above.

(audience applauds) People to people.

It's just a better way to bank.

(relaxed ensemble electronic music) (relaxed ensemble electronic music continues) (relaxed ensemble electronic music continues)